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Feb 26 12 10:09 AM

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In Porsche 911RS 2.8 analogue and digital speedometers are not synchronised.
Example.
I think the problem exist with at least one more car but I cant remember which one at the moment.

And a few questions:

In RealFeel ini there is "DefaultFrontGripEffect" options which is 0 by default.
Why?
That thing is great in my opinion, when set to 1 I can feel cars much better when under/oversteer and how much more I can push the car into the corner.
Maybe it should be 1 by default.

Is it me or lots of cars in Historix 1.9 with grinding tranny are very forgiving.
When I use grinding tranny with some other mods if I not rev enough or over rev when downshifting I will either lock wheels or my car will shoot out as soon as I release the clutch, so I know that grinding tranny is set up and working correctly.
In Historix tho most of the cars dont mind me missing power band.
IIRC Mercedes is rather vulnerable but Porsche 911 RS 2.8 and Cobra (I think it was porsche and cobras I dont remember atm which cars exactly) are more forgiving I dont think I locked wheels on either of them even tho I am sure I missed powerband a lot.

I would need to connect all the pedals and wheel to tell precisely which cars are oblivious to my terrible shifting practice

Thats all I can think of as for now. :cheers:
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Rantam

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#1 [url]

Feb 27 12 11:22 AM

First, thanks for your feedback

About the Porsche, you're right. Will forward that to the guys... Some times is not possible to match both gauges, but i guess on this case it should be.

Regarding the DefaultFrontGripEffect I'd say it's a matter of personal opinion. TechAde explained that parameter as "This is a bit of a fudge that when set above zero will provide an additional steering force reduction when the front tyres are sliding. Maximum recommended value is 1.0 which will provide a 100% drop in force when 100% of the contact patch is sliding".

We decided to use the value he established for it by default, which is zero. But adjust it at your will

Regarding the forgiveness of RF on v1.9 I'm not really qualified to answer that. Hopefully some of the physics guys will read your post and will come with a proper explanation for that..

Thanks once more! ;)

Regards

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#2 [url]

Feb 27 12 11:06 PM

Re: Porsche 911RS 2.8 desynchronised speedometr.

Bushi wrote:
Is it me or lots of cars in Historix 1.9 with grinding tranny are very forgiving.
When I use grinding tranny with some other mods if I not rev enough or over rev when downshifting I will either lock wheels or my car will shoot out as soon as I release the clutch, so I know that grinding tranny is set up and working correctly.
In Historix tho most of the cars dont mind me missing power band.
IIRC Mercedes is rather vulnerable but Porsche 911 RS 2.8 and Cobra (I think it was porsche and cobras I dont remember atm which cars exactly) are more forgiving I dont think I locked wheels on either of them even tho I am sure I missed powerband a lot.

I would need to connect all the pedals and wheel to tell precisely which cars are oblivious to my terrible shifting practice
First things first: If you're not revving enough or over rev when downshifting you shouldn't even be able to get it into gear, so you shouldn't really be experiencing lockups because of that. =)

But anyway, the cars are pretty forgiving when you for example initiate a drift by shifting down and letting the revs drop before engaging the clutch. I'm guessing this is due to the tyres being pretty forgiving when sliding and perhaps there's some slip in the driveline when that happens. In some mods, yes, you would spin out instantly, but these cars are pretty good about it.

And about how some cars might be easier with Grinding Tranny than others, that's pretty big jumble of different things interacting. Gear ratios (especially how large the gaps between gears are), rev limits, how quickly the engine revs up and down, all of that plays a part in how easy the gear changes are. Some cars with very wide gaps between gears are more difficult to time correctly than others. But if you learn your car inside out you can figure out the correct timing for most every situation. The DB4 is one of my favorites and I enjoy driving around the Nordschleife in it, never using the clutch when changing. The time to wait between every upshift and the amount of blip required for every downshift is different and very situation dependent, it's great practice and immensely satisfying when you can go a full lap without any missed gears. =)

EDIT: On the topic of desynchronized speedometer, am I right in my assumption that rFactor doesn't really allow you to make needle gauges with a non-linear scale? I've seen plenty of cars where 10, 20 and maybe 30 are really bunched up on the gauge and then 180, 190 and 200 are wide apart.

Besides, how accurate would the needle speedos in racing cars be anyway? They take their input from the gearbox, so wouldn't changing the final gear would necessitate a readjustment of the speedo anyway? You're just supposed to set your top gear so that you barely hit the limiter on the longest straight/fastest part of the track and not worry about specific speeds anyway. =)

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#3 [url]

Feb 28 12 3:54 AM

jubuttib wrote:
First things first: If you're not revving enough or over rev when downshifting you shouldn't even be able to get it into gear, so you shouldn't really be experiencing lockups because of that. =)

When I was talking about locking wheels I meant missing the powerband will make car jump/Jerk and will upset the balance of the car and when car jerks midturn it the same as locking wheels and this is behaviour I didnt experienced in many Historix cars (Dunno maybe I am getting better at shifting ) .

Also what do you mean I "shouldn't even be able to get it into gear" with mismatched speed/rev.
I can get into gear just fine (maybe you meant it when not using clutch or something) or I am missing some part of grinding tranny's functionality.
jubuttib wrote:

Besides, how accurate would the needle speedos in racing cars be anyway? --//--You're just supposed to set your top gear so that you barely hit the limiter on the longest straight/fastest part of the track and not worry about specific speeds anyway. =)

Well big or small a bug is a bug, I am just bringing this up to the Historix team attention for the upcoming patch, what they do with it its up to them.

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#4 [url]

Feb 28 12 11:20 AM

Bushi wrote:
jubuttib wrote:
First things first: If you're not revving enough or over rev when downshifting you shouldn't even be able to get it into gear, so you shouldn't really be experiencing lockups because of that. =)

When I was talking about locking wheels I meant missing the powerband will make car jump/Jerk and will upset the balance of the car and when car jerks midturn it the same as locking wheels and this is behaviour I didnt experienced in many Historix cars (Dunno maybe I am getting better at shifting ) .
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about, and like I said that behavior is indeed pretty subdued in the HistoriX cars, most likely due to the forgiving tyres and possibly affected by driveline/clutch slip. =)
Bushi wrote:
Also what do you mean I "shouldn't even be able to get it into gear" with mismatched speed/rev.
I can get into gear just fine (maybe you meant it when not using clutch or something) or I am missing some part of grinding tranny's functionality.
Based on my testing it seems that if the mismatch is big enough even pressing the clutch doesn't work, at least on some cars. I've tried it a couple of times with my clutch calibrated "wrong", so that I get 100% clutch at about halfway through the pedal's range of motion, so it can't be just that I'm not fully pressing down the clutch. Before I started using Grinding Tranny while drifting and going for a shift lock I would just shift down without blipping the throttle, but now I have found that if I'm not even trying to rev match I get failed shifts even with the clutch fully pressed. I don't know, even the clutch inertia and baulk torque etc. settings could affect it, I really don't have the time or means to try everything out. =)

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#5 [url]

Feb 28 12 11:41 AM

Now you intrigued me because I didnt encountered situation in which mismatched revs wont allow to go into gear.
So if you could either tell me conditions so I can replicate this behaviour (Car, speed, gears, revs) or Just record a replay demonstrating it.
I would be grateful.
In case you will go with replay God forbid making a full fledged movie, encoding and stuff just a few kb replay.
Indianapolis would be good long straight, perfect for reaching maximum speed and then break/match revs etc.
I am starting to suspect that maybe i have something set wrong (even tho I have no idea what could it be)

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#6 [url]

Mar 1 12 11:10 PM

Re: Porsche 911RS 2.8 desynchronised speedometr.

Bushi wrote:
In Porsche 911RS 2.8 analogue and digital speedometers are not synchronised.
Example.
I think the problem exist with at least one more car but I cant remember which one at the moment.

And a few questions:

In RealFeel ini there is "DefaultFrontGripEffect" options which is 0 by default.
Why?
That thing is great in my opinion, when set to 1 I can feel cars much better when under/oversteer and how much more I can push the car into the corner.
Maybe it should be 1 by default.

Is it me or lots of cars in Historix 1.9 with grinding tranny are very forgiving.
When I use grinding tranny with some other mods if I not rev enough or over rev when downshifting I will either lock wheels or my car will shoot out as soon as I release the clutch, so I know that grinding tranny is set up and working correctly.
In Historix tho most of the cars dont mind me missing power band.
IIRC Mercedes is rather vulnerable but Porsche 911 RS 2.8 and Cobra (I think it was porsche and cobras I dont remember atm which cars exactly) are more forgiving I dont think I locked wheels on either of them even tho I am sure I missed powerband a lot.

I would need to connect all the pedals and wheel to tell precisely which cars are oblivious to my terrible shifting practice

Thats all I can think of as for now. :cheers:


I have checked the speedometers and unfortunately if we make the needle precise at those speeds, we can't make it precise at higher speeds, so we will have to let it be as it is by now.

About the fudged effect, as you have been told, the value is not used since our cars have a good feel by default of when you lose grip and we didn't consider use it but if you want, you can, of course.

About grinding tranny, it does not have anything to do on how the transmission engages more smoothly or not. It simply engages it it senses a correct gearchange, or it doesn't. That what you are talking about is regarding the compression and inertia values of each car and this are the values that we have found to be more accurate with real life. Take into account that the brake bias also plays a lot in this. If the brake bias was a bit more critical, for sure the rear would come out if you didn't properly heel and toe, but then the car's stability braking would be more demanding and could frustrate some more inexperienced drivers. Only the most demanding will change the brake bias to get maybe an odd 0.01 seconds in each braking and only when they rev-match perfectly... If you think about it, going that radical is not necessary or good on the long term.

Hope you are enjoying the mod ;)

"Do the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong." - Colin Chapman

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#7 [url]

Mar 2 12 4:09 AM

Re: Porsche 911RS 2.8 desynchronised speedometr.

YoShImUrA wrote:
speedometers--//--we will have to let it be as it is by now.

Wasn't using it anyway
YoShImUrA wrote:
About the fudged effect

Well I guess the question of preferences, one thing it adds though, just as leo plugin when you're in a turn and your tires getting past their slip angle you can feel it by wheel going a bit numb.
Without it, there is same resistance and the only way you can tell your tires are at their peek its either by screeching sound or by looking at outer tire temp.
YoShImUrA wrote:
About grinding tranny-//- what you are talking about is regarding the compression and inertia values of each car and this are the values that we have found to be more accurate with real life.

For some reason I assumed thats grinding tranny influence how the car will react to bad revmatch, my mistake I guess.
And since I have no idea what would be realistic with those cars I take it on your words
YoShImUrA wrote:
Hope you are enjoying the mod ;)

Yes I do :cheers:

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#8 [url]

Mar 2 12 11:05 AM

Re: Porsche 911RS 2.8 desynchronised speedometr.

YoShImUrA wrote:
About grinding tranny, it does not have anything to do on how the transmission engages more smoothly or not.
Do you have any idea how it works internally by the way? I ask because while I can't remember what cars in the HistoriX mod were prone to it, just last night I was working on a WIP car that had serious problems with going into gear when Grinding Tranny was active. While I can drive just about every car in HGTTC for many many laps without missing a change, this car was rejecting about 1/3 changes. I took a look at the HDV and the clutch torque, baulk torque and clutch inertia values seemed a bit high, and replaced them with values from Niels' Supra, and instantly after that I had no problems changing the gears.

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#9 [url]

Mar 3 12 3:34 AM

Well, it's certainly not car related, at least up to what I understand of how the plugin works. It is only related to the inputs, so that was good ol' placebo making you think it was the car... =)

"Do the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong." - Colin Chapman

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#11 [url]

Mar 7 12 10:29 AM

I assume that you have read the manual and that you are aware that when you shift above the max hp rating that appears on the car selection screen, every rev above that value and every degree of oil temperature above 110C deg in any car of the mod will generate damages to the engine.

If so, let me know which particular 904 (there are three with three different engines) is having this issue and will take a look. ;)

"Do the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong." - Colin Chapman

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